Quote: Posted 10/20/06 19:59 (GMT) by HugarWoolomonga

Sicarium... "It's just a game," is the lamest possible response to a serious topic like this.

I remember back when Mattel made a board game for girls about a decade ago (so yeah, not back in the 40's) in which girls were supposed to learn about professions. The professions they showcased included: nurse, secretary, hair stylist, waitress... basically all the stereotypical jobs for women. They got hell for that and eventually pulled the game, which was a very good decision.

What was the argument of sexist idiots who didn't understand how damaging a game like that could be to young, impressionable minds? "It's just a game."

It is not just a game. It is a powerful tool of communication. NWN2 especially so, since it is an interactive community where people from literally around the world come together to play. In addition, the values and themes presented by the game influence people in subtle ways (notions of good versus evil, the alignment system, influence system, etc.).

And you are wrong to say that there are no people of color in the D&D world or even in NWN1. I remember a black character from the OC.

There is really no reason why there shouldn't be at least a few faces/head-models of people of other races.

Quote: 
there are no ways for us, the users, to make custom heads that we can send to obsidion ent. , to have them animated and added into the base game's next patch.

Edited By xitooner on 10/21/06 00:34

Quote: Posted 10/20/06 23:30 (GMT) by Balek-Vriege

Elves are probably the worst race for petty discrimination amongst their subraces and the worst "race war" offenders in (Crown Wars). Although Humans can be pretty hard on Elves sometimes...

Quote: Posted 10/21/06 01:09 (GMT) by Razzen

Quote: Posted 10/20/06 23:30 (GMT) by Balek-Vriege

Elves are probably the worst race for petty discrimination amongst their subraces and the worst "race war" offenders in (Crown Wars). Although Humans can be pretty hard on Elves sometimes...

I don't know if I would call the Crown Wars a "race war" since the Ilythiiri nation had not yet become the Drow subrace until the very end of the war. Also the major cause for the war was religion, not race, thanks to Araushnee/Lolth's machinations (religion is usually the biggest cause of war in the Realms, not race). Elves are pretty bad about discrimination but dwarves are probably just as bad if not worse, since they have both the Duergar and Derro subraces to deal with.

I'm not going to take this topic too seriously, but I will say that since there is such a variety of human peoples in Faerun it would be nice to have future gamemakers set their games in areas outside of the Sword Coast North so we could get some more of that variety. I vote for Unther or Chessenta, the Iraq and Iran of the Forgotten Realms. Still, since it's set in Neverwinter it makes sense that the predominant humans would be Northmen (Franks and Scandinavians), but there should be some Amnians (Spanish) as well.

And I'm pretty sure that the dark-skinned woman in the banner is a Tiefling.

Quote: Posted 10/21/06 02:37 (GMT) by Balek-Vriege

Yeah I pretty much agree with you on Crown Wars. I think it was brought on from territorial disputes between 2 Elven nations which mushroomed into the Crown Wars (like World War I, then events leading to WWII). They weren't race specific, but it really was a huge factor after a while I think. Around one of the Crown Wars, the Moon Elves were the only ones working towards equality among the elves. Elf subrace was a serious issue back in the old days of Faerun, even before the Ilythiiri/Drow and Araushnee betrayal.

Quote: I like that idea of Unther and Chessenta for a game setting. With Mulhorand on its way to becoming a grand empire again (Occupation of 80% of Unther, Skuld soon to rival Waterdeep, plans for invasion on Thay etc), there could be a lot of story potential in that region. Could even throw in some ancient evil like Set, an Unther god or... *cough Imaskari cough* in there. Sorry, had to mention Imaskari...

Quote: Then again, there's so many areas of the Faerun with rich history, but rarely, if at all, get any play...

Quote: Posted 10/21/06 03:41 (GMT) by Razzen

Quote: Posted 10/21/06 02:37 (GMT) by Balek-Vriege

Yeah I pretty much agree with you on Crown Wars. I think it was brought on from territorial disputes between 2 Elven nations which mushroomed into the Crown Wars (like World War I, then events leading to WWII). They weren't race specific, but it really was a huge factor after a while I think. Around one of the Crown Wars, the Moon Elves were the only ones working towards equality among the elves. Elf subrace was a serious issue back in the old days of Faerun, even before the Ilythiiri/Drow and Araushnee betrayal.

This is a good point, I forgot that the early Elven nations were divided into subraces even back then, but I think it was more of a nationalist dispute over territory, at least in the first 1500 years or so when Arvyandaar and Ilythiir were expanding their empires. You're right though that in the later years racism was a serious driving force, but that was also around the time that the Dark Seldarine came into play as well so it all gets stirred up with religion again. The racism of the Sun and Dark Elves was always a problem though--Moon Elves really are the best of the lot.

Quote: I like that idea of Unther and Chessenta for a game setting. With Mulhorand on its way to becoming a grand empire again (Occupation of 80% of Unther, Skuld soon to rival Waterdeep, plans for invasion on Thay etc), there could be a lot of story potential in that region. Could even throw in some ancient evil like Set, an Unther god or... *cough Imaskari cough* in there. Sorry, had to mention Imaskari...

And don't forget about the return of Tchazzar!

Bringing back the Imaskari would be awesome, and even better to include their successors the Red Wizards. Aglarond would be a good fit with that, too, and I think the Simbul finally deserves a cameo.

Quote: Then again, there's so many areas of the Faerun with rich history, but rarely, if at all, get any play...

Agreed. I am sick of the Sword Coast.

Quote: Posted 10/21/06 19:54 (GMT) by HugarWoolomonga

I'd like to thank everyone for the excellent feedback to this topic. I reall wish that a dev would pitch in, but as many people have mentioned here... they probably have bigger fish to fry at this point.

Still, I don't think it would have really been such a herculian task (as some have implied) to put a little variety in the head-models and hairstyles so that we could make a black/asian/middle-eastern/latino/etc character.

I also disagree with those who say it would be "unrealistic" for an Asian-typed character in Faerun... isn't your character supposed to have vague geographic origins anyway? I mean, you can start as a tiefling in the village...

Thoughts?

Hugar

Edited By Balek-Vriege on 10/21/06 20:43

Quote: Posted 10/21/06 20:31 (GMT) by Balek-Vriege

Quote: Posted 10/21/06 19:54 (GMT) by HugarWoolomonga

I'd like to thank everyone for the excellent feedback to this topic. I reall wish that a dev would pitch in, but as many people have mentioned here... they probably have bigger fish to fry at this point.

Still, I don't think it would have really been such a herculian task (as some have implied) to put a little variety in the head-models and hairstyles so that we could make a black/asian/middle-eastern/latino/etc character.

I also disagree with those who say it would be "unrealistic" for an Asian-typed character in Faerun... isn't your character supposed to have vague geographic origins anyway? I mean, you can start as a tiefling in the village...

Thoughts?

Hugar

That last part is completely viable and true in my opinion. They set up the beginning I think for that (adopted by an Elf, small village). As you say, if you can start as a Drow or Tiefling, I think its possible one or both your parents could have been immigrants from say Kara-Tur (Remember Yoshimo from BGII?) or Chult (Arin Gend from NWN). It isn't unrealistic so much, as just improbable in the Sword Coast and The North regions. People who say it's unrealistic for asians etc in Faerun, may misunderstand that Faerun isn't just the Sword Coast x1000.

On that heads thing:

They may be very difficult to do, but like every game with custom content community, I find many people rise to the occasion. Dungeon Siege 1's Toolset was pretty insane for the time, but people still made great stuff.

Edit: Another thing which may have got in the way were zots. With the NWN2 delay and the cutting 1-2 prestiege classes for time concerns, I would safely guess the devs were seriously running out of time. Which means they only had the time/zots for heads. However, they also needed enough viaration for main ethnic groups located in that region, without having cookie cutter NPCs. The above is just all conjecture though, but this could be one explaination.

I think since most of the graphic/animation work is done, a NWN2 expansion will not only have more variation in heads/faces, but in a lot of other things as well.