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Autore System Requirements FAQ (2)
Selene Moonsong
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Registrato il: 12 mag 2004
Da: I've likely been there...
Inviato: mercoledì, 13 dicembre 2006 02:17
Continued from System Requirements FAQ
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The-Kiwi
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Registrato il: 07 mag 2003
Da: Deep down in the south of Texas
Inviato: mercoledì, 13 dicembre 2006 03:42
System Requirements (from game DVD Readme), Replaces Version # 1 ( Click Here )

Recommended:
3 Ghz Intel Pentium 4 or equivalent processor
1 GB System RAM
ATI X800 series, NVIDIA GeForce 6800 series, 256 MB, or more, video card

Minimum System Requirements:
Windows XP (Windows 2000 added by Obsidian. Atari doesn't "know that", through now)
512MB System RAM
2.4 Ghz Intel Pentium 4 or equivalent processor
Hard Disk Space: 4.9 GB free hard disk space (twice that for unpacking space)
128MB Direct3D, Dx9 (hardware-compatible) video card and DirectX 9.0 compatible driver;
Minimum: ATI Radeon 9700 Pro or NVidia Geforce 6600
DirectX 9.0c software (included)
DirectX 8.1 compatible sound card
DVD-ROM Drive speed: 6X speed or faster
Keyboard, Mouse

Supported Video Card Chipsets:

ATI X1950 series
ATI X1900 series
ATI X1800 series
ATI X1650 series
ATI X1600 series
ATI X850 series
ATI x800 series
ATI x700 series
ATI x600 series (Ouch - the Vanilla card is very slow)
ATI Radeon 9800 series (Amended) 9800 Pro, 9800 XT only
ATI Radeon 9700 series (Amended) 9700 Pro only
NVIDIA GeForce 7950 series
NVIDIA GeForce 7900 series
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 series
NVIDIA GeForce 7600 series
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 series
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 series (Ouch - the Vanilla card is very slow)

If you're unsure whether your system will be able to handle NWN2 or not, test your hardware at the System Requirements Lab and see if you meet the requirements they test for. Be aware that the results are often anomalous, and the Requirements Lists that they refer to, same as at D2D, have often been out of date -- as of my editing date, D2D continues along in its oblivious state, months behind the current list, and SR Labs as well.

The tests are at http://www.srtest.com

Note: nVidia's 8800 cards are far too new to have been included in the lists.

Some relatively recently removed listings included these:

ATI Radeon 9600 Pro, 9600 XT only (Those are unsupported now)
ATI Radeon 9500 Pro and better (That's unsupported now)
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700 or above (Those are unsupported now)

There have never been any supported Laptop video devices for NWN2, nor any supported 64 MB video cards, nor any supported Intel graphics of any kind. If you receive the error message "Cannot find compatible Direct3D Device" when attempting to start the game, you've ignored the video requirements above, and must upgrade, at least the video device ( Click Here ).

For any members here whose hardware seems generally well above the Recommended Level without reaching any particularly enjoyable compromise setting between animation speeds and image quality, the very first thing to do in troubleshooting is what is called a "Clean Boot". Turn off the modem, or unplug it (my own cable modem has no on- off switch), go to Start / Run, type in MSCONFIG, and choose to shut everything off other than Windows' own critical services. Then reboot and test the game. There is a new Stickied Fixes Thread including discussion about this procedure ( Click Here ).

Another similar message thread to compare that one to is Click Here

If the game now runs more smoothly, you need to eliminate whatever you've had running, such as Xfire, Antiviruses, etc. that conflict (and keep the modem off, if the antivirus was slowing the game down excessively).

This FAQ isn't intended to cover the terminology used when various PC enthusiasts discuss gane requirements. There are many sources on the 'Net to provide that. Among the better places you can use is "Jargon Buster":

http://www.helpwithpcs.com/jargon/jargonmenu.htm

But just entering a term in Google works almost as well!

If you just want to inventory your own PC's components, there are followups to this basic message, one of which covers that subject, but along those lines, here's Personal Computer Literacy RE 001 ("Remedial Education")

The four main parts of the PC you can actually look at and handle are the Display ("monitor"), keyboard, Main System Unit, and mouse. Inside of the Main System Unit are the primary components that are named on game marketing boxes as the "System Requirements" (per the list above). The CPU, or Processor, is the brain, and is a large integrated circuit device with a cooling radiator and a fan sitting on top of it (keep that radiator clean, and don't let that fan fail). Close to the CPU are the System Memory DIMMs (relatively long, skinny circuit boards with RAM chips on them, they fit into special edge connector slots). When the game names a minimum RAM amount, it usually refers to the total on the DIMMs.

Those two are important to running games, but for most recently developed games, this next item is the very most important of them all. Below the CPU on the Main System Board (that's the large circuit board that fills much of the side or bottom of the Main System Unit's case) is the video adapter slot. Only AGP and PCI-e16 slots can be counted on for games, and the inexpensive PCs without a dedicated video slot are well known for not running most games. A proper 3D video card must occupy that edge connector slot. More about the rankings of video card performance is found in a separate Video Rankings thread, linked in below.

You should plan on using a card that at least meets a game's "Recommended" Requirement. Minimums aren't at all good enough. Also note that while most modern game requirements do list a certain amount of onboard VRAM on the video card as a minimum amount, for the most part you don't need, and cannot typically USE, any more than double the minimum 128 MBs amount named for NWN2 (in other words, a "slow" card with 512 MBs on it is a waste of RAM).

The final component referenced is storage, and two different aspects come up. The game will load itself on your hard drive, and run from there. You will need to have twice as much available storage (the game needs 5 GB for itself, and another 6 GB for working room, such as when install files are being expanded as part of the install process, and for some special procedures, such as NWN2's Upgrade Patching process. Your optical drive typically needs to run at some minimum speed, such as 6X for a DVD. This completes my quickie "components summary".

You will never see a game's System Requirements List with the Power Supply Unit ("PSU") that converts AC current to the various 3, 5, and 12 volt DC segments that the Main System Unit's components require included, but it is a fact that very often an upgrade (particularly a video card) requires more juice than the original equipment PSU can supply. Replacing this device calls for some caution. You are powering the entire system from the PSU, and a cheap one not only may not actually supply the current it promises, it can actually fail in a totally catastrophic manner and take CPU, RAM, MB, and/or video processor out at the same time. Shop for quality brands from the list of names: Antec, Enermax, Fortron, PC Power & Cooling, OCZ, Seasonic, Sparkle, and in Europe, a new one, Hiper.

.
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Registrato il: 07 mag 2003
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Inviato: mercoledì, 13 dicembre 2006 03:45
Can't compare System Info to Game Requirements to decide on the game's purchase?

The bottom flap of the game box didn't seem to name a lot that you could understand, and the clerk couldn't help you, or you don't trust what he said?

Your original receipts and manual named most of that information (the component names and descriptions asked for on the bottom flap), if you can locate that paperwork. Also, your operating system includes its own System Information summary report.

If only the System Requirements Lab would stay up to date, so we could rely on them, it'd be really great, but they will not. They have a web site at which they collect the games' Requirements for a great many games, and offer a free test to compare a visitor's computer to each game's official requirements. But far too oftenm they have old and outdated lists instead of the latest, so any "pass -no-pass" results are quite doubtful. But you can save the SR Test report (it will identify most of your PC's game-needed parts fairly well).

There are several free programs that perform inventory-type services, the simplest of which is CPUz. My own favorite site for software such as CPUz is from Major Geeks (link at the bottom). The Crucial Memory web site offers an even simpler survey of your PC's components, and does name one thing that might be slightly more difficult for a beginner to determine, or to remember. It's able to tell you whether your video card is running in an AGP or a PCI-e slot.

The most detailed reports are offered by Belarc and by Everest Home Analysis.

If you bought the game without understanding the requirements, and it won't run for you, when you really feel certain that you had bought a powerful enough computer, recently enough, to run just about any game that there is, then it's past time now to learn about what's inside that machine. A caution is in order here. Ordinary business quality PC hardware is less powerful than is required for games. Inexpensive PCs are worse than the basic business boxes in how little of the game software they can run. Laptops as a class are generally not suitable for gaming, either.

Crucial Memory http://www.crucial.com
Major Geeks http://www.majorgeeks.com
NWN2 System Requirements FAQ: Click Here
System Requirements Lab http://www.srtest.com

The BioWare NWN2 Technical Support (Self Help) Forum starts off asking about the PC components as follows:

Game Version: (actual number)
Game Language: English or ?
Game's National Version: as in European, American, etc.
Retail or Digital: Retail CD / Retail DVD / Direct 2 Drive
Processor Manufacturer: AMD / Intel
Processor Type: Athlon 64 / Pentium / dual core
Processor Speed: ?.? Ghz (or AMD Performance Number)
Operating System / Service Pack: WindowsXP with SP # ?
System RAM: ? ? GBs (or MBs, if less than 1024)
Video (GPU) Manufacturer: ATI / Nvidia (only those are supported)
Video Card Model: (examples) Radeon x1650 Pro / Geforce 7600 GS
Video Card onboard RAM: ??? MBs
Video Card Driver Version: Catalyst ?.? / Nforce ??.?? (use numbers, not the word latest)
Power Supply Make, Model, and 12 volt amperage
Sound Card Manufacturer:
Sound Card Model:
Sound Card Driver Version: ?.?? (again, numbers please)
Problem Description: Explain your problem here

There is an additional item that helps identify a problem with performance, and it is generated by the DxDiag utility in DirectX, the graphics display portion of Windows. If the "used" amount in the Windows Page File is large, there are too many background processes running.

This segment of the System Requirements FAQ is also part of the General Discussions Forum database, and is referenced individually as part of my day to day comments in various members' requests for assistance. Most of the following segments have that same dual nature.

.
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Registrato il: 07 mag 2003
Da: Deep down in the south of Texas
Inviato: mercoledì, 13 dicembre 2006 03:50
~> ~> ~> AMD Fast CPUs? Performance Rating #s? What?

This came up before, and is related to the Stickied System Requirements FAQ, and depending on Moderator Whim, might be item two in a # 2 version of that Sticky (there is a proposed # 2 FAQ on Graphics and Video that has been ignored by Selene so far, despite her ending comment at closing its predecessor). The parts of the prior thread I'd seen that led to looking at, and trying to paste in (unsuccessfully), Honourable Tyr's charts follow:

Quote: Posted 11/01/06 19:34 (GMT) by Glengarry_Fencible

Can someone tell me what AMD processors are equivalent to 3 GHz Intel Pentium 4 processors?

Lots of discussion about video cards, but not too much about CPU's.

Quote: Posted 11/01/06 19:38 (GMT) by Riandor

Athlon XP2800+ or better (in response to 3ghz P4 question above).


Let's try and clear up the processor core speed confusion. Elsewhere, some of us have commented about odd responses offered from SR Test's diagnostics when the CPU is anything other than the two (single core version) primary desktop processors, the old Netburst P4, or the still-current K8 AMD A64 CPU. While notebooks make poor gaming platforms generally, the SR Test results on laptops/ notebooks are often wrong. The results for dual core CPU hardware is also often wrong (as frequently over-calculated as under).

(Please Google up any terms you don't understand. I'm not purposely trying to use "tech jargon", but it's going to happen, and our forum isn't the place to educate folks about GigaHerz, MegaBytes, Central Processing Units, or a related term to any of those, really.)

When the AMD K6-2 CPU and the P-II/ P-III competed head to head a few years back, Intel started touting the processor core speeds as the real measure of computing power. AMD always had a slight edge in number of instructions performed per second, and with the K7, really starting showing Intel its coat-tails. About the time that the P-III hit its original high point, AMD was well ahead, but its CPUs were also running very hot, with the faster Thunderbird Athlons. The Netburst P4 needed close to a half GHz of greater core speed to match the P-III or Thunderbird's instructions performed rates. When AMD brought out the XP, it started out to refer to performance numbers related to their Thunderbird, they said. The XP ran a lot cooler, while the Intel P4 was now *the* major waste heat generating device available for any PC.

But an XP 1400+ was faster (more instructions per second) than a Netburst P4 running at 1.4 GHz (and also slower than a Thunderbird, running 1.3 GHz). AMD performance numbers have changed basis when AMD silicon, or Intel silicon, has changed enough to affect the way the two rivals related to each other. Closing out the XP series, AMD introduced the Barton family of K7 CPUs that were performance rated with lower numbers than the earlier Thoroughbred XPs carried, because the Netburst Northwood C was a better P4 than those before it.

Semprons were introduced to compete with the P4-based Celerons. Neither one (Celeron especially, but Sempron CPUs aren't hugely better) is particularly good for games. However, the Semprons are at least "fair" for lesser slow games. The performance numbers of Semprons also changed; originally the numbers related to "regular" Celerons, but the s754 Semprons are matched to the Celeron "D" CPUs.

Intel responded with the Prescott P4, and had another reprise of the old story when the Williamette P4 came out and was less efficient than the slower Tualatin P-III. The Prescott needed 400 MHz of core speed advantage in order to match the Northwood P4. But for awhile, AMD had no immediate response to the faster Northwoods and Prescotts.

Then the K8 blew Intel's CPUs so far into the weeds it took Intel almost three years to make a comeback. The A64 single core CPU included still another adjustment to the performance numbers. An A64 2800+ was the equal of an AMD Barton XP 3000+ (the 333 MHz FSB one), and was well ahead of a P4 running at 2.8 GHz. Before Intel had any answer to the A64, AMD already was selling the X2, dual core processor. Intel scrambled on that, even though they'd been working on one of those of their own.

Now, the Core Duo and Core 2 Duo have flipped the table back over. As big of a jolt as the A64s were to the P4s, that's the kind of leap ahead that these new ones offer. The number of instructions per cycle is still higher than that performed by the K8s. And there's no immediate AMD response in the offing right now.

Here is a relatively current Tom's Hardware CPU summary article for the benchmarking.

Click Here

AnandTech published a very interesting article about the CPU influence on the Oblivion game:

Click Here

The column width at TES' Forums is quite generous, and I'll include a link to the thread fragment I wanted to paste next, but the charts themselves make no sense broken short, plus, the editor here whines and moans about unbroken line lengths, so next, is Honourable Tyr's (text from his) chart of CPUs from the TES: IV Hardware forum:

Click Here
Quote: 

Minimum System Requirements

These are based on a Pentium 4 processor, therefore a processor equivalance must be used. This is because Pentium 4 and Celeron (not M) processors are very inefficient in the way they work, and need a high speed to achieve a good throughput of data.

Analogy: It is like using a Ferrari for a courier company, you can go fast but can't carry sh!t! Whereas the Pentium-M, Celeron-M, Core, Core 2, AMD64, Turion, AMD XP, and Semprons are like a Van or Pickup truck of varying sizes. They are slower but can carry a lot more to the destination, therefore, they are better for your courier company's use.

NOTES (General information)

Core Duo - Performs on par with the Pentium-M/Core processor line clock for clock for normal tasks. Multi-tasking and specialist programs can run up to 1.8x (80%) faster.

AMD64 X2 and Turion X2 - Performs on par with the AMD64 processor line clock for clock for normal tasks. Multi-tasking and specialist programs can run up to 1.8x (80%) faster.

Pentium 4-D - Performs on par with the Pentium 4 processor line clock for clock for normal tasks. Multi-tasking and specialist programs can run up to 1.8x (80%) faster.

Core 2 Duo - Performs on par with the Core 2 processor line clock for clock for normal tasks. Multi-tasking and specialist programs can run up to 1.8x (80%) faster.
I've made a visit or two to the TES: IV forums lately, and Tyr has been absent for about a month. Maybe has a Gothic 3 install that actually is working well? (As is obvious from the spelling of his electronic handle, he's a resident of the UK, and Europe has had Gothic 3, with much more serious problems than NWN2, since the middle of October.

The charts he included do not work her because of our so- narrow column widths.

.

Edited By The-Kiwi on 12/13/06 03:55

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The-Kiwi
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Registrato il: 07 mag 2003
Da: Deep down in the south of Texas
Inviato: mercoledì, 13 dicembre 2006 03:53
My referral topics at NWN2 Forums:

I've no great ambition to have more than the System Requirements FAQ among the forum's Stickies to be my own, and from within it to link in various of my ordinary message thread references, such as the Video Rankings List, for which the second did eventually obtain Stickied status, but I occasionally do forget to make certain that these "ordinary threads" remain active enough to be posted to (the forums here have a "no further posts, it's too old" timeliness limit). Periodically, I have to disinter one that's gotten that "old".

Besides the update of the stickied System Requirements thread, are these other items in other Threads -- not all necessarily authored by myself.

Table of Contents to (not-Chaucer's, actually) "Cautionary Tales"

512 MBs on Low and Medium Quality Cards is Still a Scam:

Click Here

" (No) compatible Direct3D device(s)"

Click Here

(Search) ~> Click Here

CPU Speeds -- processor equivalencies to P4:

Click Here

How to identify your PC's components for the System Requirements comparisons:

Click Here

Integrated Graphics versus Shader Modelling 2 Function speeds (Awful): *

Click Here

Laptops unsupported, IGPs the same, plain PCI bus video as well: *

Click Here

Plain PCI bus Video capability, Terrible:

Click Here

Recommended Level Video Cards, cheapest found:

Click Here

Shopping for a new 3D Video Card for NWN2:

Click Here

System Requirements FAQ 1:

Click Here

Unsupported Laptop Video (what *is* High Quality for a laptop?):

Click Here

Upgrade costs (Dell Dimension Cheapie) at lowest levels, Targeting now at $338:

Click Here

Upgrade Paths for AMD s939 vs. AM2:

Click Here

Video Card Performance Rankings FAQ 2:

Click Here
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Registrato il: 05 set 2002
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Inviato: giovedì, 14 dicembre 2006 09:37
Just ran srtest and I passed on everything even on recommended! So why am I experiencing graphical anomalies so often?
According to this test my system should run this game perfect! It actually shows I have ABOVE recommended specs! If my card is so good for playing NWN2 it shouldn't get overheated, if that's what it does.
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Registrato il: 07 mag 2003
Da: Deep down in the south of Texas
Inviato: giovedì, 14 dicembre 2006 01:25
I wrote these segments as a service to the membership. I do not guarantee anything to anyone who refuses to read what is written. SR Test is screwed up, D2D is also, and I said so in the second segment.
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penguinpoolooza
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Registrato il: 29 dic 2006
Inviato: sabato, 30 dicembre 2006 02:55
Hello,
I have two questions and am hoping someone here can help me. I tried looking through the various FAQ's but couldn't find the information or answers I was looking for. If I missed something and my question has already been answered, or if this is an inappropiate thread to ask my questions, I apologize.

To start off, my system specs:

Aurora m9700
AMD Turion 64 Mobile ML 40 2.2GHz 800MHz FSB 1MB L2 Cache
Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
1GB Dual Channel DDR SO-DIMM at 400MHz
Dual 256MB NVidia GeForce Go 7900 GS - SLI Enabled

Question #1: Is my processor 3GHz P4 equivalent?

Question #2: I've read on these forums that laptops tend to run NWN2 poorly. Unfortunatly, the people who have posted about the poor or okay performances of thier laptops don't seem to have a similar machine to mine so it's hard for me to compare and guess how mine will preform. Looking at the specs I listed, does my laptop stand a chance at running NWN2 well?

My thanks to anyone who can answer my questions or point me into the correct direction.
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The-Kiwi
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Registrato il: 07 mag 2003
Da: Deep down in the south of Texas
Inviato: sabato, 30 dicembre 2006 03:09
That Turion will more than merely be equal to a P4 running only 3 GHz, and those video cards would normally be great in a game of this type, but right now, there do seem to be huge questions about how and why SLI setups run far more poorly than they should inside of the game. For some reason, when systems as far above being merely at the Recommended Level are matched up to NWN2, the results are often rather ordinary, not at all spectacular.
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penguinpoolooza
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Registrato il: 29 dic 2006
Inviato: sabato, 30 dicembre 2006 05:44
Thank you very much for your quick reply. It's unfortunate the SLI setup seems to mess with the game, but as long as I can still play all is well.
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Registrato il: 11 giu 2003
Da: Canada
Inviato: sabato, 30 dicembre 2006 04:11
system requirements lab is not a good place to send people because they do not have the correct information for this game and will rate it as pass even though the game will not run smoothly.

I say this because this is exactly what happened to me.

I checked there before i bought the game and with

an AMD 3500+ performance rated at 3.5ghz
a 7300gt nvidia geforce card
1 gig of ram
160 gb hard drive

I was given a very good rating and sys req labs said my system was fine for playing.

so I buy the game and lo and behold, the 7300 gt card, while having all the shader goodies and meeting all the reqs as stated by obsidian does not cut the mustard.

so I have to go out and buy a 7600gt card and get another gig of ram. Now the game will play.

what was really frustrating was that I didn't know the card was not supported until I read the readme file on the disk after buying the game.

pretty cheesy and not really professional of both obsidian and atari to allow that to happen.

But as you can see in these forums, there are a lot of people who are NOT happy in the least with how all this went down. In the end obsidian and atari get all the time in the world to finish this game and who knows what the final product will look like.

It was released in an alpha form, with 1.03 is is at an acceptable level for Beta, it is nowhere near a finished game in the least.

caveat emporum on this game. If you got a wicked system, by all means, enjoy the beta! If not, give it a rest for a year. At the rate they're going with the updates it will be at least mid 2007 before this game is actually in any state of being a full game and the system requirements are solid.
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Registrato il: 11 giu 2003
Da: Canada
Inviato: sabato, 30 dicembre 2006 04:13
I would ad that one must seriously question what sort of QA department obsidian is running.

I mean come on?

laughable. I don't even think they actually had a QA team at all. just plugged away at it until they coukld get it to a point where it might work enough to sell it to some of us.
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The-Kiwi
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Registrato il: 07 mag 2003
Da: Deep down in the south of Texas
Inviato: sabato, 30 dicembre 2006 04:48
The game box bottom flap named the 6600 as the least powerful nVidia card to try. That eliminates a business- grade "300" nVidia card in every way it's possible to eliminate the stupid thing, as you were well and truly advised when you initially flooded the forums with your constant whining about it. Is your memory really that short?
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Registrato il: 11 giu 2003
Da: Canada
Inviato: sabato, 30 dicembre 2006 05:47
kiwi, i didn't "flood" the forums.i went to sys req labs, i looked on what was asked for on the box.

though you may indeed have strong knowledge of graphics cards, your argument is still moot.

according to the specs on the card and the specs on the game, it was not my error which caused the grievance.

and if you get perhaps just look through these forums, deleted negative threads notwithstanding, you will find many who are still scratching their heads about this blunder.

gimme a break, you're wrong about what happened and I certainly don't need any further advice about it. I am indicating that system requirements lab will not accurately tell you if you can play this game or not, it said i could and i couldn't until i upgraded and went through logging in here and reading reams of stuff to find out what the heck was going on with this game.

anyway, thanks for your commenyt, but keep it to yourself next time.
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spayced
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Registrato il: 18 lug 2002
Inviato: domenica, 21 gennaio 2007 03:37
I guess it depends what you mean by 'minimum.' Minimum as in you can turn the graphics settings all the way to full? Then yes, they really need to buy a new card. Minimum as in being able to play the game? You can use whatever the hell you want. Read the 128MB fix threads, hundreds of people have been able to run their game fine completely ignoring the minimum requirements. I'm using a radeon x300, not even close to minimum, but I get no lag in-game. This thread is bogus.

No matter how amazing hardware is, it can't make up for bad programming.

while (TRUE){
SpeakString("This is an infinite loop. Prepare to crash.");
int i=1/0;
}

EDIT:added divide by zero for good measure

Edited By spayced on 01/21/07 03:44

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gio, 29 luglio 2010 11:17