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 Home  Forum Index Neverwinter Nights 2 NWN2: Modules What is the one thing that puts you off a mod?
NWN2: Modules
Arcane Fury
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 NWN
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Jade Empire:SE
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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
From: Australia |
 Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 12:49AM |
If you were to name one design flaw in a mod that makes you scream "What the hell were they thinking!?" what would it be? A flaw that really puts you off a mod completely. I am not trying to be mean, I just want to know other people's blunt & honest opinions.  Edited By Arcane Fury on 12/22/06 00:49 | 
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-Asheron-
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 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
From: Portland, OR |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 01:50AM |
A LAME STORY
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Murdane
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 17 May 2003
From: The Land of Nod |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 02:01AM |
Overly difficult combat. Absurd design decisions (ie. forcing the PC to pay money to move forward without providing a way of earning money--I've seen this twice). Too-large maps that have mostly nothing in them. Illogical alignment shifts (why oh why can't I purge this feature out of existence?). Authors using settings not their own (such as the Forgotten Realms) but not trying hard enough, or at all, to follow established lore. Dialogue that railroads the PC into a specific personality.
But perhaps most of all...a boring game. If the game can't keep me entertained, why play it? | |
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flammablecamel
Game Owner
 NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Joined: 02 Nov 2006 |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 02:54AM | |
Pretty much every mod I've tried seems to want you to "grind" monsters mmo style. If I want to torture myself I will install WoW and farm lvl 60 instances. For instance I tried some dasaria server that gave 8 xp for a level 1 monster (125 kills to make level 2) lol? | |
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The Hero
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Joined: 20 Jun 2002 |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 03:50AM |
Bad Grammar.
I don't even care how small.
In fact if I ever see bad grammar in a module or a typo here and there I pretty much throw my hands up in disgust and quit.
Any man who cannot proof read his work correctly has obviously built a ***ty module. I constantly read all the content for my modules several times, and even run some of the larger things through a spell checker before publishing.
I think even Obsidian messed up their writing at one point and that's about the time where I quit the campaign. Maybe they patched it.Edited By The Hero on 12/22/06 03:50 | |
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biggest_bearded_dwarf
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
NWN 2
Joined: 13 Apr 2006 |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 05:00AM |
Tedious things you have to do which do not aid the storytelling. AKA run across large areas back and forth which have monsters that respawn or needing food, and water, and a bedroll, and whatever the hell else just to rest.
Even worse than that though, I hate when designers "increase the difficulty" by editing enemy stats to just flat out stupid levels. More difficult should mean, needs more planning and strategy, not needs lucky rolls. | |
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Dumascain
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Joined: 02 Apr 2002 |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 07:39AM |
Biggest things that put me off user-made content
1.. Bad story.
2.. Poor grammar and speeling (sic)
3.. Making things overly complicated or trying to emulate life too closely
(i.e. - Having to worry about food, actual weight for coins)
4.. Forced or linear storyline (similar to most console RPG's)
5.. Quest rewards that do not match the difficulty of said quest
6.. Totally useless quest rewards (i.e. - plate armor for a mage type character)
There's prolly more, but it's 2AM and that's all I can think of at the moment.
DMCainEdited By Dumascain on 12/22/06 07:40 | |
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Kendaric Varkellen
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
From: Wuppertal, Germany |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 12:46PM |
My biggest issues:
> Monty Haul campaigns (overabundance of money and magic items)
> Unrealistic merchants (magic weapons/armors for sale, full plate or exotic weapons for sale on a village smith)
> Magic items with no history to them
> Unrealistic treasure placement
> Too many exp and a resulting fast level progression
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anothername
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 12 Jul 2002 |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 02:00PM |
1. NPCs that constantly insist that my female chars are He/Him/the Man and behave like they talking to a hulking halforc babarian and not a halfelf sorceress.
2. To much combat for the sake of combat. Nothing against a good fight or a fun slaughterfest here an there, but please, not the whole module.
3. The "roleplaying" modules. I like roleplaying. I love it. BUT creating 50 maps, fill it with 10.000 of monsters and THEN say its an roleplaying module becase the chars gain no xp for fighting but instead for... uhm... going from a-b and successful digging their nose is NOT roleplaying. Its stupid 
edit
4. How could I forget. Not able to play my char modules and zillions of level 1-5 modules. Worse, the combination of bouth.Edited By anothername on 12/22/06 14:02 | |
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Aricore
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 03:28PM |
Great question! All module designers should read this thread. Sticky the darn thing even. 
- Poor grammar and spelling. Nothing makes you want to delete the .mod file than this. Add to this the fact that some module makers use modern day or non-RP language into their modules and that's a big turn off too. You know, stuff like "cool" or "character".
- An atmosphere that is not very immersive. I like to play modules where I get engrossed in the story. The areas feel real. Sounds effects, music, and NPC's add a lot to the module.
- A poor story is always a turn-off. Like I said, you want to immerse your players in the game.
- Too much loot!! I hate being handed things and not having to work for it.
An ideal turn-off module would be something like this:
You start off in the middle of a town with no way how you got there. The town has buildings but is empty of life. Except for one or two people. You speak with them. They are named "Human". They speak with you, "Hey. What's up? If you want some XP, please go kill the orcs which are down the road to the east. Bring me the head of the chief. If you do, you'll get more XP and I'll give you some ph@t l3wt."
You go off to the east. And find some orcs in the middle of the road. You hack them up, kill the chief and come back.
Human says, "Thanks man! You're awesome! Here's some XP and some gold pieces. Oh, and take this +3 Flamebrand sword too."
Etc, etc.. | |
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Tiberius209
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
From: Florida |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 03:49PM |
Quote: Posted 12/22/06 15:28 (GMT) by Aricore An ideal turn-off module would be something like this: You start off in the middle of a town with no way how you got there. The town has buildings but is empty of life. Except for one or two people. You speak with them. They are named "Human". They speak with you, "Hey. What's up? If you want some XP, please go kill the orcs which are down the road to the east. Bring me the head of the chief. If you do, you'll get more XP and I'll give you some ph@t l3wt." You go off to the east. And find some orcs in the middle of the road. You hack them up, kill the chief and come back. Human says, "Thanks man! You're awesome! Here's some XP and some gold pieces. Oh, and take this +3 Flamebrand sword too."
Oh, man. Now I have to rewrite everything from scratch! Bummer!
And who gave you my design document anyway?
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Cousin X
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
From: Celephais |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 04:22PM |
One thing? Boy, I don't think I can describe one without blurting out three or four more. So here's my top four:
1. Stupid story decisions. I hate standing helplessly by (e.g., in dialog mode) while something important happens. If I'm a noble hero and I see a pack of lizard men trying to burn down someone's barn, I'm not going to make some sarcastic comment about "better look behind you," I'm IMMEDIATELY going to draw steel and try to stop them.
2. Endlessly fightingfightingfighting the same battle over and over and over again. How many "thugs" are in the city of Neverwinter, and how many can FIT in one Watch informant's HOME? I swear, I must have carved through 30+ assassins (a whole freakin' guilds' worth), AND their boss, before saving the schmuck. I felt like I had interrupted a convention or something.
3. Limited dialog choices, especially when dialog has an impact on alignment and influence. Apparently, there are only two alignments in Faerun: Lawful Tight@$$ and Chaotic Stupid. So, I can play a self-righteous goody-two-shoes or a psychotic kleptomaniac... but if neither of those are my cup of tea, I'm S0L.
4. Stagnant background. Townsfolk who just stand in the same spot all day and night, having the same non-conversation, until the end of time. NPCs who bring up quests that have been completed -- even if they helped to complete them. In short, a setting that doesn't react to change.
I'm sure there are other things that annoy me, but those are the ones that come to mind.Edited By Cousin X on 12/22/06 16:35 | |
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Arcane Fury
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
From: Australia |
Posted: Friday, 22 December 2006 11:41PM | |
I supppose the thread should be renamed "things that put you off a mod." Thanks for replies, anyone else? Don't be shy | |
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Francois424
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Joined: 02 Aug 2002
From: Montréal, Québec, Canada |
Posted: Saturday, 23 December 2006 04:53AM |
Umm... Ask Matt Sippel from "Underdark Adventures I/II", and he will confirm I hate the following :
1- Experience Penalties
- At one point, when you died (in Underdark adventure I (UA1), you were sent to the fugue plane, where you could respawn and take 2 levels of penalty (never going below lvl6), or wait until scheduled midnight server reset. If you waited, you got out of "jail" no exp loss. That was rather pleasant for my play style. I hate loosing exp, and the more exp you lose, the quiker i'm out. Especially if...
- - - - -
2- Low EXP hand-outs
- Ok, I'm a patient man and all, but when the best mob I can kill which is doable for my level yields at most 20xp, and you have exp penalties.... What the heck ! Low experience works when you have no exp penlties. and even then, leveling from level 12 to 13 by gaining an average of 15xp, maxing at 22 and lower at 4... that's sick. On UA1 and UA2, XP was quick (60-120 per kill), so XP penalty wasn't to bad back when mobs are easy and you are not playing stupid.
- - - - -
3- Impossible to solo.
- This is an immediate turn-down for me... I might put up with it for a few days/weeks if your mod is well done or dosen't lag. But having to wait 1-2 hours to form a party because I play from 1-3am week days, and 11pm-2am on week-ends simply dosent appeal to me. I've played and quit Final Fantasy 11, and will never ever touch anything "party-only" again, not even with a 10 feet pole.
This is extremly important. I agree some zones should be excrutiatingly hard to solo, see even imposible by your average gamer/lower powergamer (everyone would go there once in a while, fr the thrill and the challenges. But when everything/everyzone past level 10 is so damned hard you cant do s**t, well... I quit.
- - - - -
4- Unfair monsters, or spawn times, or areas.
When you are level 1, and you fight baddies that have AC20 (and almost as much for touch attacks), or those same mobs have 30str, knockdown and cleave feats, and a greataxe... {Thank you for the offer, but i'm going to pass}. Or you reach the level for Call lightning, and you use it, and yet you dont do any damage... turns out every monsters have reflex saves of 30 and improved evasion. That really stinks.
Death attacks (not assassin's, think vorpal), too many death spells or whatever, requiering the poor fighter to carry gallons and gallons of potions (assuming the DM sells them to begin with) in order to kill your monsters is really boring. 
Another point : your monsters are good-looking, and your area is top knotch... I get to that area and decide to farm/EXP there. Nevermind the 30 reflex save and Improved evasion of your wolves, I ditched my druid and now am a pure melee with loads of strenght. I push thru the area being carefull and manage to make myself a path. Only there is one thing... They respawn in under 5min, meaning I am now surrounded in the middle of your area. I *will* die, and most likely eat 1-2 level of exp penalty. Dosen't that... suck ? 
- - - - -
4a- "You are surprised !"
This is esily scripted away, but is where ever monsters always spawns on you. You don't use any bows or area spells because all the baddies are always on top of you, sometimes chunking away huge amount of HPs before you can even react. Take the time to make a spawn system, ask for help... not only it lags a lot less, it is much more fun and strategic to most players.
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5- Useless class(es) or race(s) / Useless spell types
- What I mean is : Everywhere in your mod, we meet thieves... they do what thieves do, sneaks the hell out of you. Now these are hormones boosted thieves (unfair monsters from #4), and no reflex save spells ever hit.
Or again, You cannot rest in any areas, exept the inn... Mages are done for (especaially if you have a deep dungeon). Or monsters have insane damage reductions (15+ for every melee damage type). You just killed all of the Dexterity based builds, save the thief.
This point could go on, but you get my drift. It's tough make all classes usefull, but it's a must if you want a good variety of players. Make magical weapons of each type, but they must not be overpowered. If you give too many potions of heal, your clerics will be unused in favor of the meatshields that can drinks these. If you never give any magical weapons (or insufficient ones to kill your monsters) people wont play Fighters, but clerics or paladin instead and spam divine powers... I have seen this, every other class feels useless when "Mister T Cleric" and his 2 paladins brothers start killing everything and you dont dent anything.
A thief is useless if everything in your end-game (or even a few areas before endgame) are undead or immune to sneak attacks. It's extremly frustrating, especially if you worked really really hard on your thief and she can finaly play with the big guys... to do crap damage befow 5 dmg every hit... and you see the same "Mister T" mopping the floor with the undeads. UA2 had a very, very long stretch where sneak attacks didnt work and melee with anything but nice hitters resulted in wasted attacks and death.
How to make useless races ? That's easy. Imagine an area where every monster have sleeping arrows (DC22 at level 10) that they fire off their bow before your PCs get into range. Well, sorry to say but beside elf characters and maybe some unique build, it messes up everyone else. If your mod only has good 2h weapons after level 10 (and no small/medium) weapons, you're forcing every small player to take the monkey-grip feat... the same things can be applied to most races/sub race to make them useless... although this is less a problem than useless classes.
Useless Spells means you cant use death spells because every mosters are immune to it. Or any saving throw types because baddies have them too high. When you play a mage, you want to use these flashy offensive spells you want to do something else than buff your Fighters every time then tag along with a crossbow. Immunities sucks for the mages, and should never be used (too much) by a modder... if you want to make things tough, give the monster a little spell resistance, or one logical imunity. But not immune to 2-4 of them.
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6- Elitist rule your server... resulting in the impossibility for anyone else to finish it.
UA2 was a really incredible server... so was it's successor "Dungeon Adventures"... But they both had this flaw. You had the core elitist, the best 5 players of your module telling you it was too easy. You make it tougher, they find a way to get over the new challenges and the loop is formed... Rince'n' repeat. It killed UA2 and it killed Dungeon Adventure as well. Party playing was still working, but whithout one of these guys helping you out, good luck my friends. Of course soloing was totaly impossible by that point.
Cather to your weaker players (but not to stupid builds), and listen to their concerns... As a dm, log into your own module as a player and try to play it with the supposedly weak classes. If you can't do anything but dying (and maybe taking XP/Gold losses) thn perhaps they are right and Mister Elitist should shut the heck up, and play some "weak" classes for challenges.
I can say without shame I have never seen the end of Underdark Adventure II, and I liked it lots even if it was insanely hard and unsolo-friendly past level 12. But because of the elitist, the endgame was something I could never reach... I got tired of making new characters and left after about a year's worth of work and good RP. Dungeon adventure was meant as a new start, but the same situation happened... except much, much quickier. I left after 3-4 months, no regrets.
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7- Stupid Rules / Stupid DMs
I've only had one encounter of that type, and it wasnt on my favorite servers. it's hard to make a good point because different players have different tolerance treshold on these issues.
Stupid rules are mainly rules that should not be on the said server... Either they advantage the wrong crowd of players (kill stealers, PK or MPKs, DM-lapdogs, bad attitude morons), or they plainly kill the fun out of the server (like: you need a permission to play this or that... or they make you delete your characters because they feel you don't fit, or deny you over level 10 because you don't attend the events... so I must miss work ??).
Stupid DMs are those that turn a blind eye to "Keeping it fair". I would like it too if "Joe the DM" gave me a +20 weapon on a server that has them restricted to +3, but this is the kind of thing that sucks for everyone elses. They are also the ones that like experimenting with you... they spawn 20 skeletons on you to see what you're going to do (in an area where there are no skellies to begin with, thus your spells/weapons/gear isnt good) and then do not even make excuses or do not/refuses to raise you, making you soak whatever raise penalties. If it's in good sport, it can be fun... but once burnt that way, I'm gone forever.
- - - - -
and finaly,
8- Useless areas :
You know what I mean... huge 32x32 areas with nothing in them... Theres a lot of obstacles barraing your way and it takes well over 20 minutes to get to the other side. No encounters, no NPCs, nothing. Ok, it might be cool the first time... but I dont want to have to walk this way everytime. I cannot zoom on the exit and click it, then watch tv or drik coffee like I did in Baldur's gate I/II... Boooooring.
Another type of useless area, you have 2 choices to get to granny's house to get your final quest for your level 3:
- "Easy flagged cockatrice" infested wood with a stacking temporary DC22 fortitude petrification breaths(timer reset each hit... yeah, you'll die, and it's going to take long and be boring).
OR
- go thru the cave where you have "moderate" flagging Orcs that melee but have nothing debilitating as effect except the critical on their clubs.
The cockatrice wood is a useless area. Don't bother, dont waste your time even thinking about such a stupid area.
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Man was this big, but heh, you asked for it.Edited By Francois424 on 12/23/06 05:00 | |
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Avendesora84
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Joined: 11 Jul 2004
From: Essex, England |
Posted: Saturday, 23 December 2006 05:10AM |
Uninspiring conversations. I'll play *anything* if the dialogue can keep me entertained. Sadly, this was one of the most common flaws in NWN1 modules.
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