|
|
 Inizio  Indice del forum Neverwinter Nights 2 NWN2: Players - Mask of The Betrayer Campaign (Spoilers Warning) Rally your ideas! Chris/Obsidian wants ideas! Lest you want to see doomed romance!
NWN2: Players - Mask of The Betrayer Campaign (Spoilers Warning)
ZomaNogardis
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 08 ago 2005 |
 Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 07:37 |
Chris Avellone is asking in his blog for suggestions how Obsidian could write better romances in their games.
Click Here
So while it may be too late to alter anything in NXP1, it might influence NXP2 or Obs's future RPG games with good and constructive suggestions/criticisms from you. | 
|
Countless
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 28 ott 2003
Da: The USA |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 08:15 |
The biggest failure in NWN2's romance was that they picked the wrong NPCs. I haven't finished the game as a female, so I can't speak for that side of the story, but I found Neeshka to be a very good romance prospect, and Elanee to be, well, rather boring. I pretty much ditched her at the Sunken Flagon as soon as I could for the crime of not being interesting enough.
By comparison, Neeshka was always making comments about what was going on (in that cute voice no less), and actually showing some amount of life in her personality. Whenever Neeshka had something to say, which was fairly often, I paid attention. When Elanee had something to say, blah nature blah Mere blah shadows.
I would really be interested to know why the romantic "interests"  both male and female, were calm, restrained (read: uptight), religious fanatics.
_________________
Lawful does not mean obeying laws.
The MotB Revert Pack: revert the heads and Warlock armor! | |
|
Squire
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 23 giu 2002
Da: England |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 08:47 |
I would say that the NPC in question shouldn't necessarily like the PC if he/she (the player) happens to choose the right dialogue options. Or if not, then the dialogue options should depend on your charisma/wisdom/intelligence.
In my opinion, an ugly, stupid half-orc barbarian with 8s in all the non-combat related statistics shouldn't have as much chance of attracting the NPC love interest as a clever, witty, good looking half-elven bard - sure we'd all like the old Beauty and the Beast style romance but it just doesn't seem fair that the female must be pretty but the male can be as ugly as you like (or vice versa).
In other words, it shouldn't be guaranteed that no matter what character you play, you can always have the same character love you, because you read on a forum which dialogue options to pick.
_________________
So at the start (well not the start), Harry either dies or has sex (or neither), leaving not Sarah (unless it's Sarah) to fall in love, or not in love, with a shark, squid, a pebble, a policeman, or none or all of the above. | |
|
Vaeliorin
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 29 giu 2002 |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 08:49 | |
Seriously. My paladin had no problems with Elanee, but I'm playing through with a female chaotic neutral bard at the moment, and there's no way that any of the male characters are going to interest her. Two lawful goods and a neutral(?) evil? No thanks. (BTW, Neeshka clearly isn't neutral, despite what her alignment claims. She likes me being chaotic, hates me being lawful. Doesn't seem to matter good/evil wise, particularly, though I'd say she leans a little "evil" according to recent game standards (she's greedy). ) | |
|
Countless
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 28 ott 2003
Da: The USA |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 09:11 |
Quote: Posted 07/24/07 08:47 (GMT) by Squire
I would say that the NPC in question shouldn't necessarily like the PC if he/she (the player) happens to choose the right dialogue options. Or if not, then the dialogue options should depend on your charisma/wisdom/intelligence.
In my opinion, an ugly, stupid half-orc barbarian with 8s in all the non-combat related statistics shouldn't have as much chance of attracting the NPC love interest as a clever, witty, good looking half-elven bard - sure we'd all like the old Beauty and the Beast style romance but it just doesn't seem fair that the female must be pretty but the male can be as ugly as you like (or vice versa).
In other words, it shouldn't be guaranteed that no matter what character you play, you can always have the same character love you, because you read on a forum which dialogue options to pick.
I have to disagree. Realism aside, I don't much like the idea of choices made during character creation penalizing you in non-obvious ways. Making it harder to gain Influence with a low CHA or Diplomacy character is one thing, but the option should still be there if you try hard enough. It's just no fun to reach the end of the game and realize you screwed up your story options during character creation.
But then, I don't think it's all that fair to design the game assuming that the player has read a walkthrough either.
_________________
Lawful does not mean obeying laws.
The MotB Revert Pack: revert the heads and Warlock armor! | |
|
flem1
Game Owner
 Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 31 ott 2006 |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 10:30 | |
Erm, am I wrong or does the post suggest that there might be more than the one romance per sex that's been announced? | |
|
TCNTalon
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect
Registrato il: 21 lug 2002 |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 11:48 |
CHOICES
CHOICES
CHOICES
Chris, if you're reading this, remember that one simple precept and your time on building a romance plot will not have been ill-spent.
We know that Chris prefers unrequited/impossible loves, he feels they're more dramatic and even believable. That's fine, and a lot of people are also into that as well. We also know that Chris is really into depressing the hell out of his audience. The story of NWN2:MotB is supposed to be very 'dark'.
The trick, Chris, is not to railroad us. Yeah, the main story has to end a certain way, but the details--the way the end of the story all shakes out--could easily be within the player character's control. Does the romance plot work out? Sure it could, if the PC does things a certain way. If they like that happily-ever-after thing. Or maybe the PC could chase down the dramatic ending of the love plot. Or choose to ignore it completely. Choices, Chris. Choices.
Take Bishop for example. I know a very large number of girls who wanted to romance him. They're divided in two, though: One half wanted him just like he was, because they liked the bad boy. The other half wanted to heal him, make him whole again, make a decent guy out of him. Not Mr. Clean the Marine or anything, but decent. (A good example of this one is Anomen. He can go either way in BGII). Other games have done it in the past... I see no reason why we can't give the ladies their choice there too.
If you're going to limit us to one romancable NPC, you'd better really flesh that character out and make it interesting. Elanee was inexcusible; the woman was about as interesting as a piece of lumber. Casavir wouldn't shut up about Old Owl Well long enough to find out if he was interesting or not either.
The other big thing is, romance is a journey, not a destination. With Elanee, for instance, the whole (very brief) thing culminated in the "sleepless night" for the both of them... then you never heard about it again. The idea is to have plenty of "companionable" dialogue between the two characters. Notice I said "companionable", not "interrogation." For some reason when talking to the companions in NWN2 I always felt like I was just grilling them for info. It never felt like a conversation. Almost everything you could say to them ended in a question mark.
Finally, remember that our PC just got out of a hellish situation. He went from being surrounded by friends to being all alone. Surely the new companions, romancible or otherwise, will have stuff to say about that? Let us have some humanity for Pete's sake. And when they ask us, and if you give us a choice like, "It's just as well, I didn't like any of them anyway," it wouldn't kill the companion to ask why. And allow you to answer. Dialogue, Chris, is back-and-forth.
So, there you go. My input. Do with it what you will. | |
|
potatocubed
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire
NWN 2
Registrato il: 26 lug 2004 |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 11:53 |
The solution seems pretty simple, so I worry I'm missing something: give the player a choice.
Consider BG2 - there are three female romance options (only ever played as male, so I can't speak for the other side) and they are each very different. Even if you detest one or two (as I did) the third one often makes for an attractive choice. (Although I still wanted a romance with Mazzy for my halfling...)
Now consider the NWN2 OC - a single choice for each gender. This bad decision was compounded by picking the least interesting of a pretty terrible batch of NPCs to have the romance quests. I'd like to add my voice to the chorus calling for a Neeshka romance. And a Shandra romance! Have these people never heard of 'raise dead' for crying out loud?
Also, a Sand romance. He deserves it by virtue of being the sole interesting male companion.
EDIT: Simu-posted. The guy above me says it much better.Edited By potatocubed on 07/24/07 11:54 | |
|
Arlain
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 18 ago 2003 |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 12:36 |
Quote: Posted 07/24/07 11:53 (GMT) by potatocubed
Also, a Sand romance. He deserves it by virtue of being the sole interesting male companion.
This demonstrates why Choices are so important:
1) Race of PC, why the heck does Casavir want to spend a night with my Dwarf? And why doesn't Khelgar want to?
2) Lack of conversation options can lead to poor personaltiy development and thus dislike of character.
3) Personal taste is impossible to account for. Give me a Khelgar romance you can keep Sand.  | |
|
RGC_Ines
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Mass Effect
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 25 gen 2006 |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 12:39 | |
About companions with which ours PCs could romance they are actually choosen I think..for males as we know it will be Safiya a Red Wizard and for females it will be hagspawn spirtit shaman Gann ( this new is from http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=154) | |
|
Fardragon
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 03 mar 2002
Da: England |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 12:43 |
Stuff romance, I just wannna kick butt!!! 
_________________
Fardragon, Artist, Scientist, Educator and Dragon Maker.
My website | |
|
Tarmack
Moderator
Registrato il: 23 ott 2001
Da: Edmonton |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 02:21 |
In any romance situation, never will the situation exist where all players enjoy the romance. Due to a number of factors of course, but primarily I believe it is due to the character choice they have been provided.
So the more options a player has, the happier that player is likely to be because they can choose the romance that is either A) best for their character or B) most appealing to them as a person.
That said, every romance has to be detailed and more than just a side quest. I tend to avoid romances in general because often times they arise in poor ways. Random party banter needs to not be the main function of the romance progression. There need to be designated events that the player can choose to undertake specifically with the romanceable NPCs.
As an ending note though, its my opinion that the concern over romances often times is misrepresented on the forums. We're the obsessed,  , not the norm. At the end of the day a game doesnt need 5 fully detailed optional male romances and 5 female romances and 5 gay romances and 5 romances that could be male or female or gay depending on the circumstances and and and you get the picture. What it does need is a bit of choice, and some time spent integrating the romance into the game.
The choice that people in this thread so far are asking for isnt easy and will take a lot of time to build. But to be honest I do feel romances are a situation of doing it right and making it seriously involved, or not doing it at all and spending the time making the game better elsewhere.
Good Gaming 
_________________
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college" - Lewis Black | |
|
Stellanthalus
Game Owner
 NWN
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
Registrato il: 09 mar 2007
Da: Goldfrappland |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 02:46 |
I have a bad feeling now about how the romances are going to turn out in MotB.....
_________________
Go Sens go! | |
|
robertthebard
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Registrato il: 19 giu 2002 |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 03:11 |
My two biggest suggestions have been covered:
Choices.
Depth.
You get these going on, and it's bound to be better.
_________________
...and it harm none, do as thou wilt.
My Music | |
|
Squire
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 23 giu 2002
Da: England |
Inviato: martedì, 24 luglio 2007 03:19 |
Quote: Posted 07/24/07 12:36 (GMT) by Arlain
This demonstrates why Choices are so important:
1) Race of PC, why the heck does Casavir want to spend a night with my Dwarf? And why doesn't Khelgar want to?
Exactly. That's also why I think a romance shouldn't be guaranteed just because he/she is there, but there should also be more than one option.
Quote: 3) Personal taste is impossible to account for. Give me a Khelgar romance you can keep Sand.
Definitely. In BG2, I really liked Imoen. While she was around, I simply couldn't bring myself to have a romance with anyone else. Same in NWN1, when I wanted Sharwyn but could only have Aribeth. Many people here have mentioned Neeshka, but I don't like her at all. No matter who you give to the players, a number of them will always want a different character. So why not make EVERY character romance-able? I know they will need to be written, and I'm sure it's probably not the most exciting part, writing romantic dialogue for a dwarvern monk to another dwarf...so why not hire a romantic writer to do the dialogue?
_________________
So at the start (well not the start), Harry either dies or has sex (or neither), leaving not Sarah (unless it's Sarah) to fall in love, or not in love, with a shark, squid, a pebble, a policeman, or none or all of the above. | |
|
|
Ricerca nei forum |
FAQ sui forum |
Archivi dei forum
|
NeverWinter Nights 2, Forgotten Realms and the Forgotten Realms logo, Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, and the Dungeons & Dragons logo, and Wizards of the Coast and its logo are trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., in the U.S.A. and other countries, and are used with permission. © 2004 Wizards. Software © 2004 Atari Interactive, Inc. All rights reserved. HASBRO and its logo are trademarks of Hasbro and are used with permission. Windows is either a registered trademark or trademark of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and/or other countries. Manufactured and marketed by Atari, Inc., New York, NY. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.
Sito gestito tramite BioBoards - versione 3.00.0 10.1.12.32
Web Site Help
Jobs | Website Terms of Use Agreement | Privacy Policy
Rules of Conduct | Copyright and Trademark Information
|
|
Support
