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NWN2: General discussion forums for NWN2 (No Spoilers Allowed)
Shallina
Game Owner
 NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 07 nov 2007 |
 Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 03:12 |
Mass effect wasn't a PC game, it's a port that wasn't even made by Bioware. Mass effect is a good consol game and a tiny game.
But it can't compare to WoW technicaly, for the scope of the game, and the feature displayed as well as the number of copy sold.
Mass effect is a good game, but nothing like WoW/AION/GUILDWARS/L2/FFXIII for exemple in its scope.
You should really use your brain before saying such a thing. Even if I loved mass effect, Mass effect is "a nothing" next to WoW in every domain aside from the story.
MAss Effect or DAO are full of loading and many tiny AREA.
WoW is hundreds times bigger and you got no loading, you can move without stop beceause of the use of streaming. Do you even realise the superioty of Blizzard implementation ? DA.O and Mass effect are lvl 1 spells while WoW is a lvl 9 spell for the technical side of those software.
I don't know if you played WoW and realised what those guys really did. You didn't like it, well you can't please everyone, but i am myself a develloper, and like it or not, WoW is a revolution for many things. They put some feature in their game that put to shame DAO and Mass Effect even today.
You are not in a tiny box in WoW, and you may like it or not, but it made all the games that were using tiny box like crap next to it, and it still does. That's not the only thing were WoW show a hudge technical advance.
A loading screen every ten minuttes of gaming when next door you almost nevers got any loading screen in a game 100 times biggers.... The mcDonald of video gaming is more the Bioware game than WoW, aside from the story they are cheap game. THe NWN toolset was something big but aside from that, Bioware games only really shine for their story, but under the story except for NWN, they got no value.Edited By Shallina on 11/07/09 15:38 | 
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nicethugbert
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 25 mar 2004
Da: The Presidency |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 03:13 |
Quote: Posted 11/07/09 00:20 (GMT) by SunKnight0 Quote: Posted 11/06/09 23:35 (GMT) by nicethugbert
I don't understand this "worst thing to happen" view. It's not like people are forced to play a game. If they're not interested then they can just stop playing it and do something else. WoW just happened to be what a lot of people wound up doing at the same time. They might have turned to TV or so many other things.
It has nothing to do with the people playing it. I could not care less what the players do. It has to do with all the gaming companies spending their development resources trying to immitate it and producing failure after failure because they think they can make the same kind of money, instead of producing single player RPGs, which while they will not make them rivers of gold, they will at least turn a profit if done and marketed right. I feel fairly confident DA:O will drive the point even though given the influx of RPGs in the last year I think games like Mass Effect have gone a long way towards that.
You can't discount the customer and his taste. If not for customers, WoW cloning would not be so attractive to the gaming companies. WoW's massive success is what draws so many companies to imitate it despite failure, the expected payoff is that huge. Turned profit is what companies use to chase after WoW. Companies continue to make all sorts of games that are not block busters but return on the investment which they then use to gamble on the next WoW. They think the expected payoff is worth it. Making a game is a gamble so you may as well gamble for a WoW than a lesser title.
_________________
Quote: Posted 11/07/08 06:38 (GMT) by Rob McGinnis
We know nicethugbert loves us. He's president of our fan club.
NTB's Eroded Hills and Valleys
SBlade FTW! | |
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SunKnight0
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 02 feb 2003 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 03:47 |
Quote: Posted 11/07/09 15:12 (GMT) by Shallina
Mass effect wasn't a PC game, it's a port that wasn't even made by Bioware. Mass effect is a good consol game and a tiny game.
But it can't compare to WoW technicaly, for the scope of the game, and the feature displayed as well as the number of copy sold.
Mass effect is a good game, but nothing like WoW/AION/GUILDWARS/L2/FFXIII for exemple in its scope.
You should really use your brain before saying such a thing. Even if I loved mass effect, Mass effect is "a nothing" next to WoW in every domain aside from the story.
MAss Effect or DAO are full of loading and many tiny AREA.
WoW is hundreds times bigger and you got no loading, you can move without stop beceause of the use of streaming. Do you even realise the superioty of Blizzard implementation ? DA.O and Mass effect are lvl 1 spells while WoW is a lvl 9 spell for the technical side of those software.
I don't know if you played WoW and realised what those guys really did. You didn't like it, well you can't please everyone, but i am myself a develloper, and like it or not, WoW is a revolution for many things. They put some feature in their game that put to shame DAO and Mass Effect even today.
You are not in a tiny box in WoW, and you may like it or not, but it made all the games that were using tiny box like crap next to it, and it still does. That's not the only thing were WoW show a hudge technical advance.
A loading screen every ten minuttes of gaming when next door you almost nevers got any loading screen in a game 100 times biggers.... The mcDonald of video gaming is more the Bioware game than WoW, aside from the story they are cheap game. THe NWN toolset was something big but aside from that, Bioware games only really shine for their story, but under the story except for NWN, they got no value.
No comment required, repeated just for laughs.
_________________
A.K.A. Shemar | |
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Hellfire59
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 24 apr 2002 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 03:59 |
Sorry, but I have to laugh along with Sunknight0.
This is the kind of thing I was talking about in my post.
There is nothing wrong with WOW as a game. I played it (the demo) and it did nothing for me.
My problem with WOW is what it does to people.
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SunKnight0
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 02 feb 2003 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 03:59 |
Quote: Posted 11/07/09 15:13 (GMT) by nicethugbert
Making a game is a gamble so you may as well gamble for a WoW than a lesser title.
That is completely faulty logic. To make another WoW you need to make something that will take the WoW customers. What all these idiots do not understand is that there is only room for one WoW. Single player games on the other hand, the same player may play 3, 4, 5 or 10 of them every year. A single player game does not have to beat everything else out there. If it is decent and marketed properly and released at the right time, people will buy it. An MMO will only get customers if they leave their current MMO. Very few people maintain multiple MMO subscriptions. Which is why every new MMO has a flux of subscriptions when realeased for 3-4 months and then players go back to their WoW accounts (unless you are in the far east; they have their own games there). An MMO cannot survive on sales, it needs active subscriptions. A single player game requires negligible support after release, compared to an MMO.
_________________
A.K.A. Shemar | |
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TiclaDesign
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 17 set 2003 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 04:46 |
Unless you go for a Guild wars business model - MMO city hubs and for the rest locally hosted quest/hunting ground for maximal 4 players (or 1 player and AI henchmen)
Guild wars has sucsesfully ran on expansion packs and DLC only. | |
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dunniteowl
Moderator
Registrato il: 12 set 2005
Da: Bastrop, TX |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 04:58 |
SunKnight0, I agree with the above point of view. The issue isn't that you or I or hundreds of others can see that. The issue is one of the 'view from the ivory tower' where the marketing folks, the 'deciders' in the board rooms and other folks of their ilk are actually thinking just like the prior idea: They are going to take a gamble, so they would rather gamble on the "Mother Lode" instead of a proven thin vein of ore.
If they're to go to all that expense, then they want to "strike it rich." It's a mentality of those who seek to do things for gain and gain only. A pie in the sky thought process that prevents them from being sensible in their methods.
You'd think they were smarter than that, but it's not as much about intelligent and thoughtful decision making as it is about how to get rich, make it, have it all, etc. And they think that if they imitate the great success story, then they'll at least get a slice of that pie in the sky.
If this weren't true, then, the moment a movie or story takes off and hits it big, there wouldn't be so many copy cat knockoffs right on their heels. Video gaming is no different in this.
Innovation is a key to successful new products. Unfortunately, there's not that many that innovate. The next best thing for someone who cannot innovate is to imitate. It's all they know and it's all they can do to manage that sufficiently well to be successful there too.
I see that. You obviously see that. I suspect many others here can see that as well. The real question is, can the guys in their "ivory towers" far removed from their true customer base in terms of experience and desire, see that as well? I think we know that the answer to that is, "No."
And, to dovetail this back to more expansions for NWN2, this is why I encourage and implore those of you who have yet to do so to make your mark on the Atari forums in this thread: Third expansion pack? to do so by registering and making your voice part of the choir. If there are a sufficient number of online votes of support, then perhaps, even up in their high windowed offices, those "Ivory Tower" types might hear us and go, "Hey, maybe we've got something useful here already."
Like I said. Perhaps nothing will come of this in the end. However, if nothing is done, nothing will happen. If nothing is said, there is no reason to suspect that anything more will occur in the form of more NWN2 goodness as expansions or adventure packs.
Let's make some noise.
best regards,
dunniteowl
_________________
If I'm going to argue with you, I have to take a contrary position.
Yes, but an argument isn't the automatic gainsaying of what someone else has said.
Yes it is.
No it isn't!
I'm sorry, is this the full half hour or just the 5 minutes? | |
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nicethugbert
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 25 mar 2004
Da: The Presidency |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 05:03 |
Quote: Posted 11/07/09 15:59 (GMT) by SunKnight0 Quote: Posted 11/07/09 15:13 (GMT) by nicethugbert
Making a game is a gamble so you may as well gamble for a WoW than a lesser title.
That is completely faulty logic. To make another WoW you need to make something that will take the WoW customers. What all these idiots do not understand is that there is only room for one WoW. Single player games on the other hand, the same player may play 3, 4, 5 or 10 of them every year. A single player game does not have to beat everything else out there. If it is decent and marketed properly and released at the right time, people will buy it. An MMO will only get customers if they leave their current MMO. Very few people maintain multiple MMO subscriptions. Which is why every new MMO has a flux of subscriptions when realeased for 3-4 months and then players go back to their WoW accounts (unless you are in the far east; they have their own games there). An MMO cannot survive on sales, it needs active subscriptions. A single player game requires negligible support after release, compared to an MMO.
So, gambling for lesser titles is better than gambling for greater titles?
When I criticize Atari's lack of investment for MP and CC in NWN2, you say Atari must know what it is doing. But, when game companies don't make the games you want then there is something wrong with them.
_________________
Quote: Posted 11/07/08 06:38 (GMT) by Rob McGinnis
We know nicethugbert loves us. He's president of our fan club.
NTB's Eroded Hills and Valleys
SBlade FTW! | |
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Shallina
Game Owner
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 07 nov 2007 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 05:24 |
You know that WoW have still the same number of player and a new MMO released last years has reached mre than 4 millions gamer ?
If what you said were true, that game wouldn't have reached his 4 millions customers while WoW didn't loose any.
As a develloper i can really tell you that WoW is really a far more advanced software than any bioware game.
And there are a lot of poeple tha tloves MMO and they prefer them 10 times to a solo story driven game. I love them both, and some love only solo story driven game.
It's not beceause you don't like MMO that they should stop doing them. MMO are the games that have the broadest audiance, and are as well the most difficult and expensive to craft.
If a compagny decide to make one, more power to them, but they got to do it well. Actually Bioware is managing a crappy MMO, EA gaves them WAR, and it seems they did a good job with it and corrected some of its issue.
For me EA gaves it to them so they can learn.Edited By Shallina on 11/07/09 17:28 | |
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SunKnight0
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 02 feb 2003 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 05:34 |
Quote: Posted 11/07/09 16:58 (GMT) by dunniteowl
I see that. You obviously see that. I suspect many others here can see that as well. The real question is, can the guys in their "ivory towers" far removed from their true customer base in terms of experience and desire, see that as well? I think we know that the answer to that is, "No."
Allow me to be a bit more optimistic (which is so out of character for me!). I think NWN 1/2, Mass Effect 1/2, Dragon Age, Oblivion, Drakensang, Fallout 3 and many other mostly single player and definitely non-MMO RPGs and their various expansions and DLC say that some of these guys can and do see a little better or at least are willing to bet on more than one horses. A minority unfortunately, but then RPGs players are not exactly a majority in the gaming world either. And a wealth of indie RPGs also says there is more than the ivory towers.
I think it is up to us RPG players to keep supporting these efforts with our wallets and our presense in their communities and the nurturing of the player base with friendly advise. One of the great things about this forum is that the posts from people who were basically WoW players and wanted to give NWN2 a try were met with friendly help and a wealth of information to help them transition to something more demanding.
_________________
A.K.A. Shemar | |
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Shallina
Game Owner
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 07 nov 2007 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 05:39 |
Actually it's more NWN2 MP player that gaves WoW a try than the reverse.
When NWN2 was released, I was playing WoW in a GUILD with many poeple, most of them were gamer to heart, and they all bought NWN2  , all played it and loved it.
But next to WoW it's just an appetizer. WoW was the main dish and remained the main dish.
You really can't compare MAsse effect/DAO/NWN2 to WoW they really are tiny things next to it. Enjoyable tiny things, but still tiny things.
MMO didn't kill SP RPG, MMO gamers that loved SP RPG still play and buy them.Edited By Shallina on 11/07/09 17:44 | |
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SunKnight0
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 02 feb 2003 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 05:39 |
Quote: Posted 11/07/09 17:03 (GMT) by nicethugbert
So, gambling for lesser titles is better than gambling for greater titles?
I am not sure if you are familiar with roulette, but gambling on an MMO is like playing one of the numbers and gambling on a SP RPG is like playing one of the Red/Black or Odd/Even. Smaller payoff but much greater chance of actually winning.
Like duniteowl said, it is more about greed and wanting to go for the big bucks than not realizing there is money to be made in SP RPGs.
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A.K.A. Shemar | |
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GreyhawkWhiteKnight
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 01 set 2008 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 06:00 |
For the record, I'm not a nice person and I'm OK with that.
I honestly believe that most people are morons. I'd say 50% of the population is too stupid to be trusted with your car, 75% are too stupid to be trusted with your dog, and 90% are too stupid to be trusted with your kids.
It's not just gaming that makes me say that. It's the state of the country and the state of the world in general. The only possible explanation for the state of affairs is either 90% of the people are evil, or they are idiots. I think evil people are rare.
If you think the Federal Reserve Bank is part of the government, you're a moron.
If you support the drug war, or any other kind of prohibition, you're a moron.
If you believe in "clean coal" you're a moron.
If you believe that Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda were in Cahoots before the gulf war, you're a moron.
Well... Most people believe these things, ergo most people are morons. I'm not going to mince words. And I don't care if you don't like me.
And I'm not trying to convince anybody. I don't expect anybody to believe me. If you don't want to believe I'm smarter than you go ask someone who you know for a fact is. Go to your university's foreign studies professor for middle east affairs and ask him.
But most people won't do that, because they're morons and they don't like to have their comfortable little belief systems challenged.
For what it's worth I don't blame morons for being morons. For many it's a condition they are born into, and for most it's a condition they've been tricked into. There are a lot of powerful people making a lot of money off the fact that people are morons, and they have the money and influence to see to it that people stay that way.
These days not being a moron is being unpatriotic.
As for crap... I stand by my initial statement.
Mcdonald's hamburgers contain more lung (as filler), esophagus (for texture) and eyeball (for flavor) than it does meat. 100% all beef means it comes from inside a cow. It doesn't mean meat.
That's crap. The product is crap. The fact that the FDA let's them do it is crap. And the fact that we let them do it, and let them feed that crap to our kids is just more proof that we're MORONS!
There's a very old expression. Most people think it's racist, because, well, they're morons. So I'll explain the background of the expression just to be on the safe side.
The expression is "A gentleman who calls a spade a spade ought to be made to use one."
I disagree. I don't believe that ignorance is ever a virtue. IMO a gentleman who doesn't know the difference between a spade and a shovel is a MORON, and should be told so to his face.Edited By GreyhawkWhiteKnight on 11/07/09 18:05 | |
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SunKnight0
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 02 feb 2003 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 06:59 |
Quote: Posted 11/07/09 18:00 (GMT) by GreyhawkWhiteKnight
I honestly believe that most people are morons. I'd say 50% of the population is too stupid to be trusted with your car, 75% are too stupid to be trusted with your dog, and 90% are too stupid to be trusted with your kids.
I won't go into the rest as this is not the place for it, but I agree with the above statement in general terms.
The only difference is that apart from my general displeasure that the world is run by stupid for the stupid, I make quite a good living doing things that are mostly simplistic to me but beyond the comperhension of even well educated and succesful people, so I am ok with the fact that most people are indeed, morons.
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A.K.A. ShemarEdited By SunKnight0 on 11/07/09 19:02 | |
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Kyllroy
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 02 set 2002 |
Inviato: sabato, 07 novembre 2009 07:32 |
Sounds more like George Carlin back from the dead here
A bit back in the thread someone commented that WoW wasn't so bad in and of itself, but its what it does to the people that makes it undesirable, or something to that effect.
This rings true in my experience. I thought I was semi-addicted to NwN until I lost one of my longest friends to WoW. He no longer calls, emails and if I get him to answer his phone he is in a constant action mode on the mouse. If I make the mistake of asking him what hes doing, I get the full instance conversation of the level 1 zillion toon he is whomping across that world.
I wonder if he has seen a sunset in the last two years?
This can't be the successful business plan as seen from the ivory tower that was mentioned .... or can it?
Ok.... MORON... there, I said it.
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