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 Home  Forum Index Neverwinter Nights 2 NWN2: General discussion forums for NWN2 (No Spoilers Allowed) More Expansions?
NWN2: General discussion forums for NWN2 (No Spoilers Allowed)
SunKnight0
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Joined: 02 Feb 2003 |
 Posted: Tuesday, 03 November 2009 04:36PM |
Quote: Posted 11/03/09 03:42 (GMT) by NWN DM Quote: Posted 11/03/09 03:31 (GMT) by SunKnight0
A 4E game may be very different from NWN2; it may not include a toolset or MP, or it may be a turn based game or it could be an MMO.
On this I actually agree with you. The toolset and MP portions of NWN2 were an afterthought. Mindbogglingly so when you consider that's what gave NWN it's longevity, but an afterthought nonetheless.
That is not what I said.
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Nickolaas
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005 |
Posted: Tuesday, 03 November 2009 05:05PM |
Quote: Posted 11/03/09 03:42 (GMT) by NWN DM
In the coming years, I doubt many companies, Atari especially, will be able to afford this portion of the equation, or the inclination to consider it.
I disagree with this. I think companies are going to find that having a robust editor at least is essential to the success of their games. Having a trhiving modding community keeps the game alive and fresh, bringing in new players all the time. It extends the shelf life of titles considerably. | |
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bjdbwf
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008 |
Posted: Tuesday, 03 November 2009 09:48PM | |
This question seems to come now and then. So again: There will be no further expansion (yeah I know, in my opinion). Here's why: SoZ seems to have been a commercial failure. That means you can't just put together a halfway low-budget mod and sell it full price. And even less so for a second time. But would a real add-on sell well enough? Probably not, as too many people have moved on and more will move on until it could be released. Reviews would be relentless, as NWN 2 gameplay and graphics just don't cut it for the mass market anymore. I'd consider buying it, I still frequent this forum after all, but we're only a tiny part of the target audience. | |
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GreyhawkWhiteKnight
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Joined: 01 Sep 2008 |
Posted: Tuesday, 03 November 2009 11:57PM |
Quote: Posted 11/02/09 23:47 (GMT) by Nickolaas Quote: Posted 11/02/09 22:24 (GMT) by GreyhawkWhiteKnight
I think you'll find that 4th edition D&D has put an end to any further official development of any 3.5 edition products, including NWN2 expansions or adventure packs.
That is so bogus. If WOTC felt they could make some more money off of a 3.5 NWN2 expansion, they'd certainly go for it. They're not going to block anything just because it isn't 4th edition, they're only criteria will be whether it provides them with some extra revenue. They're a business just like any other and they're not going to turn down more money. It's entirely Atari's call, and if they feel there's not enough money to be made from another XP, then it's not going to happen.
You're not a D&Der obviously. Or you're living under a rock. There hasn't been a single 3.5 product released since 4th edition rolled out.
WotC sincerely, and IMHO foolishly, believes that they will make more money by squelching the previous editions completely, and they have already done so. Paizo has been stripped of it's license leaving no (legal) way for anyone to get 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 3.5 edition materials of any kind other than to buy them used.
Do you honestly believe they did that because there's no longer a market for it?
D&D has a large existing audience, and they are trying to strong-arm us into upgrading to the new rules. Their greedy little corporate mindset tells them that if they continue to publish 3.5 materials people will continue to buy them, but if they kill the line completely consumers will have to buy all new collections. In short, they are giving up a small revenue stream now in the hopes that it will become a larger one later.
"Bogus?" Well, yes. I suppose it is. But it's also undeniably true. I see no reason why they would make an exception for NWN2, especially if rumors of an NWN3 momorpuger are true. It's in their best interest to squash NWN2 just like they have all their other 3.5 products. After all, you don't want happy players running around on free servers when they could be paying you fifteen bucks a month.
God I hate momorpugers.
I stand by my original prediction. 4th edition has killed any further development of expansions or adventure packs for NWN2.
Of course there's no point squabbling about it. Time will tell. | |
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_Knightmare_
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Joined: 16 Mar 2004 |
Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 12:21AM |
Quote: Posted 11/03/09 23:57 (GMT) by GreyhawkWhiteKnight
D&D has a large existing audience, and they are trying to strong-arm us into upgrading to the new rules. Their greedy little corporate mindset tells them that if they continue to publish 3.5 materials people will continue to buy them, but if they kill the line completely consumers will have to buy all new collections. In short, they are giving up a small revenue stream now in the hopes that it will become a larger one later.
I have to agree with this. Unlike previous edition changes they didn't provide any guidelines for converting your 3.x edition game into 4th ed. They bluntly stated to (paraphrase) "Forget your 3.x edition campaign. End that and start a 4th ed one."
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NWN DM
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From: Winnipeg Manitoba |
Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 12:30AM |
Quote: Posted 11/03/09 16:36 (GMT) by SunKnight0 Quote: Posted 11/03/09 03:42 (GMT) by NWN DM Quote: Posted 11/03/09 03:31 (GMT) by SunKnight0
A 4E game may be very different from NWN2; it may not include a toolset or MP, or it may be a turn based game or it could be an MMO.
On this I actually agree with you. The toolset and MP portions of NWN2 were an afterthought. Mindbogglingly so when you consider that's what gave NWN it's longevity, but an afterthought nonetheless.
That is not what I said.
Cripes... even when someone agrees with your general statement, you have to be difficult. Let's clarify so you can find something else to nitpick....
On this I actually agree with you: a 4E game may be very different from NWN2; it may not include a toolset or MP, or it may be a turn based game or it could be an MMO.
Further, IMO and based on general comments regarding the surprise in the community regarding the lacking MP side of the game, made just before initial release, the toolset and MP functionality portions of NWN2 appear to have been an afterthought during development, mindbogglingly so, again, IMO, when you consider that's what gave NWN it's longevity.
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SunKnight0
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Joined: 02 Feb 2003 |
Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 12:58AM |
I disagree that the toolset was an afterthought. I see no evidense of that whatsoever. The MP, yes, it was an afterthought and probably would not have even been included if the engine to support it was not already mostly there. MP dirven sales are simply not there to justify development costs.
Having said that, any new toolset based game would have not only NWN1/NWN2 but also the DA line to compete with, so I see it as very unlikely in the next few years unless it goes for a different angle (for example try the real DnD combat system which would target a much smaller audience but would also require much less development). Or maybe a MP-only game, but I think that was the original intention for NWN1 until Bioware figured out it would not sell that way.
My point is, I do not see a NWN3 any time soon. New DnD games will no doubt use 4E, but I don't think they will compete with NWN2; that play field is too full at the moment, they will probably target differenr audiences.
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WanderingIdler
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Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 11:35AM |
Quote: Posted 11/03/09 17:05 (GMT) by Nickolaas
...Having a trhiving modding community keeps the game alive and fresh, bringing in new players all the time. It extends the shelf life of titles considerably.
This could also have an adverse effect, discouraging players from buying the latest titles ("Why bother with Thugs of Tharg when I've still got all these mods to play for Minions of Tharg?") or at least waiting till they reach bargain bin prices.
Given the number of "more expansion please" threads, perhaps a sticky summarising what is known (shouldn't take long to do!  ) with a link to the Atari forum thread might be a good idea... | |
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TiclaDesign
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Joined: 17 Sep 2003 |
Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 12:30PM |
I rather have a Toolset and Multiplayer as an afterthought, than not at all, like DA:O is right now, thank you very much.
MP modders and players will always find some sort of workaround for problems, but when it's not there, then we are left empty-handed.
So, if a future RPG has Multiplayer as an afterthought, please do so. I'll be gratified with what i'll get, not with what I dont get. | |
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Nickolaas
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Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 05:53PM |
Quote: Posted 11/03/09 23:57 (GMT) by GreyhawkWhiteKnight
Paizo has been stripped of it's license leaving no (legal) way for anyone to get 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 3.5 edition materials of any kind other than to buy them used.
So what's your point? As far as WOTC is concerned, all previous D&D versions are obsolete products. It makes perfect sense for them to discontinue support for them and focus on 4th edition. Does Nintendo still produce Playstation 2 now that version 3 is on the market? Why should a game company function any differently? It only adds to the cost of doing business having multiple products that compete with each other, without really adding to their profit margin.
As for Piazo, I had a look at their web site and I can fully understand why WOTC might cancel their license. Their Pathfinder series is in direct competition with WOTC products. Does Microsoft use Nintendo to help produce and sell it's XBox 360?
And what you're describing is a totally different situation from NWN2. The books are WOTC's own products, they are free to do what they want with them. But with NWN2, they also have to contend with Atari's goals and wishes. If they want to squeeze a bit more cash out of the game, WOTC is not going to stand in the way. That would just be a bad business arrangement for Atari. | |
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BrianMeyer
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 NWN 2
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003 |
Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 06:36PM |
Yes i got playstation 2 long after playstation 3 came out, and there are still games being made for it.
It's kind of like buying a car only to find they stop making parts for it a year after it's made, or having an ipod without a replaceable battery. Planned obsolescence is entirely within the makers right but it also comes at the consumers expense.
Completely fair that they do whatever that makes them money as a business. However it is also fair for me as a consumer to expect fair dealing, to see their designs to get more money out of my wallet for what they are, and to give them a very hard time if they actually want any money out of said wallet and expect that my buying some very expensive books will be usable for 10-15 years or longer.
Basically I will want a new version when I tire of the old one and not when the company gets tired of selling it.
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Lugaid of the Red Stripes
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Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 06:38PM |
Quote: Posted 11/04/09 17:53 (GMT) by Nickolaas
Does Nintendo still produce Playstation 2 now that version 3 is on the market?
Wow...how did that slip through?
BTW, Sony actually did continue selling PS1 and PS2 consoles as cheap, low-end entry points for children and other casual gamers who wouldn't shell out $350 for a new PS3.
Media companies aren't all trying to stab each other in the back. Generally, one company that has a hit product helps draw customers into the industry as a whole. WOTC benefits from any increase in the RPG crowd, as new players try out different systems. This isn't a zero-sum game.
NWN2 could act as a stepping stone for new players, start with World of Warcraft, move to NWN2 for the storytelling (SP&MP), then move on to 4ed PnP. The only question is whether the potential sales of anther expansion justify the cost it would take to develop it.
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BrianMeyer
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Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 06:45PM |
Best thing that can happen right now is Dragon Age is owned and loved by every house hold in america. Same with WoW which really paved the way for cRPG's.
Once that happens, other gaming companies will actually look at the market and enter it. This also will get more folks looking for other cRPG's and will have them trying NWN1 and NWN2, baldurs gate and the list goes on.
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Nickolaas
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Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 08:54PM |
Quote: Posted 11/04/09 18:36 (GMT) by BrianMeyer Yes i got playstation 2 long after playstation 3 came out, and there are still games being made for it.
I'm quite surprised. I guess Nintendo is operating under a different corporate model than the vast majority of them out there. It's certainly quite unusual for a company to keep producing an old product when they have a new version on the market. | |
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MasterChanger
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NWN 2
Joined: 12 Aug 2008 |
Posted: Wednesday, 04 November 2009 10:03PM |
Quote: Posted 11/04/09 20:54 (GMT) by Nickolaas Quote: Posted 11/04/09 18:36 (GMT) by BrianMeyer Yes i got playstation 2 long after playstation 3 came out, and there are still games being made for it.
I'm quite surprised. I guess Nintendo is operating under a different corporate model than the vast majority of them out there. It's certainly quite unusual for a company to keep producing an old product when they have a new version on the market.
Psst, I think the person above meant that asking about Nintendo's involvement policy on PS1/2/3 is kind of like asking if Bioware is making a NWN2 expansion. Sony makes the PS, not Nintendo.
Just a minor correction. | |
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