Shaughn78
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 06 feb 2004 |
 Inviato: giovedì, 05 novembre 2009 04:45 |
I am working on a larger exterior area that is a fortress. I plan to have numerous sentry creatures standing on walls and towers. There will be no interaction with these creatures as a direct assault is not an option for the player.
I am trying to maintain a decent performance with this area. I have all ready turned all placeables that will not intect with the PC or a script to environmental objects. Limit shadows on certain lights, etc.
My question is would it be better for performance to use creatures for these sentries or create visual effect models?
_________________
The Risen Hero Campaign
Risen Hero Blog
There be boulders!
Giant Boulder Toss |
|
Chaos Wielder
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 05 feb 2003 |
Inviato: giovedì, 05 novembre 2009 06:04 |
Visual effect creatures seem to work fairly well. I assume you plan on having them dead(skeletons, corpses and such) and not doing animations? I haven't played around with them too much--my halloween house, and some secret usages I have currently--but I haven't noticed a drop in performance when using them.
That said, if you put down like, say, 30 VFX dead creatures, and your framerate drops, you might have an issue there. It's probably best to try and hope for the best, and I haven't had any experience to say they'd harm the experience too seriously.
_________________
Shagret Development Blog |
|
|
BrianMeyer
Game Owner
 NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Registrato il: 17 giu 2003 |
Inviato: giovedì, 05 novembre 2009 07:10 |
Quote: Posted 11/05/09 18:04 (GMT) by Chaos Wielder
Visual effect creatures seem to work fairly well. I assume you plan on having them dead(skeletons, corpses and such) and not doing animations? I haven't played around with them too much--my halloween house, and some secret usages I have currently--but I haven't noticed a drop in performance when using them.
That said, if you put down like, say, 30 VFX dead creatures, and your framerate drops, you might have an issue there. It's probably best to try and hope for the best, and I haven't had any experience to say they'd harm the experience too seriously.
Less though than what you get with 30 full creature objects. You can set an animation in a model too ( bigby comes to mind as an example ).
_________________
DungeonEternal PVP PW | Joining a PW |
|
|
Shaughn78
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 06 feb 2004 |
Inviato: giovedì, 05 novembre 2009 07:44 |
I was looking to use the visual effects in place of live creatures. Give then the idel looping animation and place them ontop of towers and walls.
I'm trying to create a larger army and would like to be able to show some of their numbers without killing performance.
So the big question is what takes more memory a idle creature or a visual effect model playing idle animation? |
|
|
Chaos Wielder
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 05 feb 2003 |
Inviato: giovedì, 05 novembre 2009 10:06 |
I think 30 visual effects run better, in this example, unless it were all the same model and you had it cached.
The reason I'd use VFX files, though, is that you can't mouse over them. It's important for removing visual clutter.
_________________
Shagret Development Blog |
|
|
ciViLiZed
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 15 feb 2005
Da: Montreal, Quebec, Canada |
Inviato: venerdì, 06 novembre 2009 01:42 |
I'm curious how one would go about it? I presume you'd do model event-based sefs? Which model definition file would you use? Is there one that looks like the guard you have in mind? Can you customize it (head, armor, weapons)?
Just how many guards are you talking about Shaughn? I don't think 30 guard creatures that do nothing but idling or wwp would have much of an impact. If they don't run through the HenchDCR decision making routine then I don't think there would be that much of a hit. If they do nothing but idle, then you can even take away all their event scripts so you're sure they don't do any thinking at all.
But in the end, best way to make sure, is to drop them in you area and see how it reacts.
_________________
E.C.Patterson
Gaming Parents Studios
NWN2 mod in production: Trinity - Watch the trailerEdited By ciViLiZed on 11/06/09 01:48 |
|
|
_Knightmare_
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 16 mar 2004 |
Inviato: venerdì, 06 novembre 2009 12:40 |
Quote: Posted 11/06/09 01:42 (GMT) by ciViLiZed
I'm curious how one would go about it? I presume you'd do model event-based sefs? Which model definition file would you use? Is there one that looks like the guard you have in mind? Can you customize it (head, armor, weapons)?
Not to derail the topic, but I would also like to hear how one goes about making a creature model VFX.
_________________
Ferret Fact you never knew: Click Here |
|
|
Chaos Wielder
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 05 feb 2003 |
Inviato: venerdì, 06 novembre 2009 03:20 |
Looks like I have another VFX tutorial to make!--I'll have it done by Monday.
Open the VFX editor
- File, New, SEF
-Add Event, Model
-Under MISC for that, change the definition file to "c_wolf_cl_body01"
-Change skeleton to "c_wolf_skel"
-Set Looping to TRUE
-Change animation to "ANIMTYPE_TAUNT"
Voila! You now have an endlessly taunting wolf. This is very basic, but there you go. Save it into the override folder, and you can place it down in your module(if you want a dead wolf, change looping to FALSE and animation to "ANIMTYPE_DEATH01" or "ANIMTYPE_DEATH02").
On topic, I'd say go for the visual effects. It will be less cluttered.
_________________
Shagret Development Blog |
|
|
ciViLiZed
Game Owner
NWN
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 15 feb 2005
Da: Montreal, Quebec, Canada |
Inviato: venerdì, 06 novembre 2009 03:57 |
Quote: Posted 11/06/09 15:20 (GMT) by Chaos Wielder
Looks like I have another VFX tutorial to make!--I'll have it done by Monday.
Open the VFX editor
- File, New, SEF
-Add Event, Model
-Under MISC for that, change the definition file to "c_wolf_cl_body01"
-Change skeleton to "c_wolf_skel"
-Set Looping to TRUE
-Change animation to "ANIMTYPE_TAUNT"
That works fine for single model creatures, like a wolf, but how do you do it for a humanoid guard? Body, head, hair, armor pieces and weapon parts are all separate models. You can't reference a unique definition file in this case, unless you make a new complete model, or pick one that exists. But what are the suitable options there, if any?
Could you actually "build" a VFX guard by putting together the different models needed into one sef through as many model events, and have head, hair, armor pieces etc fall in the right place/attachment? Has anybody tried that? And if it's feasible, is it worth the trouble? Part of the trouble would be to find the model name that corresponds to the piece you want to insert...
_________________
E.C.Patterson
Gaming Parents Studios
NWN2 mod in production: Trinity - Watch the trailerEdited By ciViLiZed on 11/06/09 16:10 |
|
|
Chaos Wielder
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 05 feb 2003 |
Inviato: venerdì, 06 novembre 2009 04:10 |
You can, technically, build creatures out of multiple models and such. However, unless they're playing a static animation--say, death or something--there is a possibility that the effects will get loaded at slightly different times, ruining the look. I have tried this--it only happens sometimes, but it's enough to deter me. So, I'd avoid it.
For his purposes, however, it'll work fine. I imagine he wants ogre corpses and such.
_________________
Shagret Development Blog |
|
|
Shaughn78
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 06 feb 2004 |
Inviato: venerdì, 06 novembre 2009 06:27 |
I have already created a number of dead visual effects. Undead horse, skeleton and zombies. And these all look great.
I am looking at placing some orcs on top of some towers and walls. These will probably be only visible from certain angles. Uniqueness doesn't matter and the lack of a weapon will hardly be noticeable if I can't get it to look right. The creatures in the main parts of the camp will be creature placeables not effects. This is just to add volume to the army without killing performance.
The next chance I get in the toolset I look at setting up the idle animation models and see how it acts. |
|
|
ciViLiZed
Game Owner
NWN
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Registrato il: 15 feb 2005
Da: Montreal, Quebec, Canada |
Inviato: venerdì, 06 novembre 2009 06:55 |
I don't see how using a model VFX could deliver better performance than using the actual creature (stripped of its event scripts). Doesn't the VFX use the exact same model and textures as the creature? Isn't that the same load on the graphics processor?
Using a model VFX is indeed a good idea to declutter an area or to place creature models outside the walkmesh (or in the air), for instance, but should a performance boost really be expected?
_________________
E.C.Patterson
Gaming Parents Studios
NWN2 mod in production: Trinity - Watch the trailerEdited By ciViLiZed on 11/06/09 18:57 |
|
|
BrianMeyer
Game Owner
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Registrato il: 17 giu 2003 |
Inviato: venerdì, 06 novembre 2009 08:06 |
Well a creature model, even without events, that is going to be iterated every time you do a fire ball.
Same reason environment objects are better than placeables, even though it has no event scripts, it has the field in memory that lets it have events.
_________________
DungeonEternal PVP PW | Joining a PW |
|
|
Chaos Wielder
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Registrato il: 05 feb 2003 |
Inviato: domenica, 08 novembre 2009 02:12 |
Brian has my view on it. Creatures have a potential of interaction with the game world, so they run more resources than simply their appearance. This is how I think the case is, and I haven't been proven wrong(then again, I don't have the power to check, say, 40 VFX creatures versus 40 non-VFX creatures).
_________________
Shagret Development Blog |
|
|
Lugaid of the Red Stripes
Game Owner
 NWN 2
Registrato il: 14 ago 2008 |
Inviato: domenica, 08 novembre 2009 03:46 |
If you really wanna get a whole mess of soldiers on screen without slowing down the framerate, you should make some placeable cards of them. There's a tutorial on the vault (and on a thread around here somewhere).
If you're worried about players seeing the cards from the side, you can do the same trick they use for the grass. Make two cards, one viewed from the front, and another from the side. Place them together in a cross, and the cardboard-cutout looks like a 3D creature unless you get close.
_________________
The Last of the Danaan - SP Mod
Click Here |
|
|
Support
